Courtesy Palazzo Grassi, Venice

Lee Lozano, "No Title" (ca. 1963). Crayon and graphite on paper. 17 1/2 x 22 1/2 in.

Courtesy Palazzo Grassi, Venice

Paul McCarthy "Bear and Rabbit on a Rock" (1992). Mascot heads, acrylic fur, metal armature, foam rubber, Formica pedestal, 106 1/2 x 75 x 51 1/2 in.

Mark Rothko Jeff Koons Mike Kelley Sigmar Polke Robert Gober Tadao Ando Felix Gonzalez-Torres Cady Noland

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On June 6, "Mapping the Studio" opens in Venice, timed to coincide with the Biennale. The show comprises 300 works by 50 artists, including Robert Gober, Felix Gonzales-Torres, Mike Kelley, Cady Noland, Sigmar Polke, and Charles Ray, and is coorganized by the curators Alison Gingeras and Francesco Bonami. But the marquee name on this endeavor is the French businessman François Pinault, whose collection is the basis for the exhibition.

Pinault’s watershed moment as a collector came in the ’70s when he saw — and quickly bought — a 1925 lozenge-shaped Mondrian canvas. That encounter with modernism at its most exacting made Pinault realize he could take his collection "to the highest level of rigor." Today, the 73-year-old billionaire owner of such luxury concerns as the Gucci Group and Christie’s auction house has more than 2,000 modern and contemporary artworks. Not to mention the majority interest in two historic Venetian buildings in which to display them — the Palazzo Grassi, and the Punta della Dogana, the spectacular 17th-century customs house at the edge of the Grand Canal that stood empty for decades and which will reopen next month after a $26 million restoration by the architect Tadao Ando. This presentation will reflect Pinault’s more than 30-year commitment to postwar art and his dedication to a network of contemporary artists whose output he has collected in depth. Gingeras, who has worked with Pinault since 2006, and Bonami, who was brought on especially for this project, agreed to be interviewed about the challenges and joys that go along with organizing an exhibition drawn from a collection filled with everything from shimmering canvases by Mark Rothko to an ’87 Buick covered in vinyl by Richard Prince. Such pieces may seem familiar, but visitors can expect to see them in a new light thanks to unusual juxtapositions throughout the show. Says Gingeras, "The works will look fresh, because we’re going to show them with completely different things." MEGHAN DAILEY: Tell me what "Mapping the Studio" means.

ALISON GINGERAS: It refers to the sensibility of the collection and how it’s been formed. Rather than building the collection from what Pinault sees in auction catalogues or gallery showrooms, he relies on direct encounters with the artists in their own environment. It was really born of the fact that he has this core group of artists that he is in very close dialogue with and whom we’ve collected in depth.

FRANCESCO BONAMI: It’s about the relationship between the collector and the artwork, and the individual viewer and the artwork. That space is always very defined and very private.

AG: It also refers to the associative, intuitive thinking of an artist’s process, which Pinault understands and appreciates. We’re trying to capture a little of that energy in the way we install things. Works are not separated thematically or chronologically, for more visual and intuitive connections. There are surprises, less conventional pairings.

FB: It’s more of a path, a parcours.

MD: Have studio visits always been a priority for Pinault?

AG: At least since I’ve worked with him. Whenever he comes to New York, there are people we always see, like Rudolf Stingel and Jeff Koons, and then we often meet with someone new. He enjoys that exposure. It’s very different to actually meet an artist after forming an idea of who the person is through his or her work. After he met Gober, whose work can be so enigmatic, he said, "He’s so nice, he’s so normal."

MD: Does he talk to the artists or are you the interlocutor?

FB: He looks, mostly.

AG: He absorbs a lot of detail. Nothing escapes him. Depending on the level of comfort and who the artist is, he’ll ask questions.

MD: How involved has he been in determining the show’s lineup?

FB: He’s given us a lot of freedom, but he has his opinion about how he would like certain things to be seen.

MD: Is he like a third curator?

FB: I wouldn’t say that, but it is his collection. It’s a conversation — that’s how the thing comes alive. It has to have a point of view, because otherwise it would be just another show.

MD: The Biennale opens at the same time. Do you feel like you’ll be competing?

AG: It’s a natural time to open, and it’s the moment to reach the artworld audience. The show is also kind of a great foil to the Biennale, and I think the Venetians understand that intuitively. They have the Biennale, which takes the temperature of the moment, and the Pinault Collection, which has a certain consistency.

MD: Does Pinault see himself as more than just a collector — as a kind of patron?

AG: I don’t know if François sees himself as a patron, though certain artists might think of him that way. He has made it possible for some artists to do some ambitious projects. %E2%9C%A6

"Mapping the Studio: Works from the Pinault Collection," at the Palazzo Grassi and the Punta della Dogana in Venice, opens on June 6.

"New Medici" originally appeared in the May 2009 issue of Modern Painters. For a complete list of articles from this issue available on ARTINFO, see Modern Painters' May 2009 Table of Contents.