IN THE NEWS: Anthony Grant

Two days ago, Sotheby's announced that Anthony Grant would come on board later this month as Senior Vice President and International Senior Specialist in Contemporary Art. Grant is no stranger to the auction business; he was an expert in Sotheby's contemporary department in the 1980s and early 90s, leaving in 1995 to work for high-profile contemporary and modern art gallery PaceWildenstein. He subsequently started a New York/Los Angeles partnership with fellow art dealer, and once fellow Sotheby's colleague Marc Selwyn, then had his own New York gallery for a few years before returning to Sotheby's. He will remain in New York.

Artinfo.com spoke over the phone with Grant about his return to the auction house, his experience in working with galleries, and about the state of today's contemporary art market.

Q: You have a long history with Sotheby's. You came to the house as an intern in 1979, after graduating from Rhode Island School of Design, began working in the Contemporary Art department in 1983, and became head of that department in 1993. Two years later you left to work for PaceWildenstein, left Pace to start a gallery with Marc Selwyn, then broke out on your own, and now you're back. How has the auction market for contemporary art changed in the intervening years?

A: The traditional role of an auction house, of getting consignments and pure sales has changed. After spending more than 18 years at an auction house, I went to one of the most preeminent galleries in contemporary art, PaceWildenstein, which shows both modern and contemporary works and had a great stable of living artists. The traditional way of getting consignments is still very much intact, but there are different things going on here at Sotheby's, and at auction houses in general, that make the practice more akin to how the contemporary art market at large functions.

At Pace, I was shocked to see how many people I dealt with who just didn't go to auctions. And then there are people who ONLY go to auctions . What Pace found desirable, I think, is that I brought that collecting base. At Sotheby's right now, it's vice versa. I try to demystify both things, the gallery experience and the auction experience. There were collectors who thought the idea of walking into a place like Pace was very scary. I try to bring people in and make the process less intimidating for them. That's what I try to do at the auction house as well.

Q: Will you be working with private sales at Sotheby's?

A: Sotheby's does private sales, and it's one aspect they want me to consider, but it won't be my day-in-day-out role. Of course, it's part of the business. Private sales at auction houses are different from those at a gallery. I've been doing private sales at galleries for ten years each sale generally takes time. At an auction house it has to be a faster scenario. You can't work for weeks and weeks on a particular sale. The buyer may have been an underbidder, or have had some other activity with the house. We will have a buyer who is an underbidder, for instance, and we will know where the work is, and it will come together quickly.

Q: Art market reporter Roger Bevan once wrote that you are "regarded as one of the most effective salesmen of contemporary American art in the business." What do you think accounts for that?

A: He's kind to say that. I think I'm very passionate about the things I sell. Obviously, within the context of an auction house, with hundreds of objects to sell, you can't be passionate about all of them, but you try your best. I think I'm effective at that. Although I don't think personal taste comes in here, my interest is Minimalism, Agnes Martin and Donald Judd, for instance and pop art. I can sell work from those areas with a deep knowledge and with passion. I think that's what Roger was getting at. He knows the collectors I've dealt with over the years, who collect those things.

I've also worked with Abstract Expressionism. Of course, it seems like the art world has lately become extremely contemporary, but even if you look back to the 1970s, you can find sales of things that were made two years before. These days, people see a Richard Prince for sale at auction that was made two years ago and they say it's shocking it's not shocking. It just seems more prevalent now because the prices are so high. I think all three houses, Sotheby's, Christie's and Phillips, this very contemporary end of the market, works a few years old by living artists, is a huge part of this business. That doesn't mean the other end is taking a back seat, and one reason I'm back here is my expertise in art generated in the 60s, 70s, 80s, the kinds of secondary market material I specialized in at the gallery.

Q: Will there be scarcity in great material from those periods?

A: It will become harder to find extraordinary Abstract Expressionist works. It does get regenerated in the market; it's not like the scarcity in Old Masters or Impressionism. But it is going to happen, no question.

Q: After working for PaceWildenstein, you and fellow Pace colleague Marc Selwyn had a bi-coastal business, with a space he ran in Los Angeles and one that you ran on 57th Street in New York. How did you find it? What is your take on the current scene in Los Angeles? By all accounts the contemporary art market there is booming, and some more New York dealers have been venturing over there lately.

A: Los Angeles has an extraordinary scene. Look at what's happening at LA MoCA, at the Hammer, at LACMA, and with Eli Broad it's fantastic. That said, when we started that business we were on a five-year plan. Marc and I had worked together at Sotheby's. We opened a beautiful, big space in Los Angeles. We had a five year lease and after those five years we are still very good friends but we felt that it wasn't making a lot of sense.

My advice to those who expand into Los Angeles is to keep your overhead in check. You must think small and grow if you go out there, not do the opposite. But there is a great community in L.A., and the notion that even people who live out West only buy in New York is false. We sold to collectors from Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oregon, Seattle many, many people from west of Las Vegas. Times have changed since an earlier generation of galleries tried to open out there, galleries like Luhring Augustine and Blum Helman many years ago. Now there is more activity there, and people are traveling to New York less than they were.

Q: You can't talk about the contemporary art market without discussing art fairs, of course. What is your take on fairs?

A: I love art fairs and I collect a great deal myself, but I find if there is a downside, it can be a way for some people to not have to go to the galleries in New York, or in Los Angeles. I'm not talking about dyed-in-the-wool collectors here, but a new group of collectors that is coming up. It's all fine, and it's all positive, but at the same time, they could go to all these fairs Basel in June, Frieze in London in October, Miami Basel in December, the Armory Show in New York in March and feel that's how they will see what they need to see and that's it. Which is fine, but there is more to collecting than going to fairs. There's only so much work a dealer can bring to a fair. I often tell collectors when they first start to collect that they should go to the fairs, go to the galleries' booths, make notes, but don't feel they have to rush in and buy five things at different booths. They will have regrets because it won't all be significant work. At the same time, fairs are very relevant and important.

Q: How do auction houses fit into this?

A: Of course auction houses are a purely secondary market. There are people who only buy at auction. I would discourage that. At auction you can find things that eluded you three years ago or 15 years ago; it plays a different role. The contemporary end is so pervasive. When you to go a fair like Basel, where the very contemporary material is on the second floor and the modern material is on the first floor, you feel like you are looking at a part one and part two sale.

Q: There is such an emphasis on the edgiest contemporary art these days. What are your feelings about this sector of the market? There's a lot of speculation, flipping of works for profit, and people have been talking about a "bubble" for a couple of years now. After last year's November sales, you commented to a journalist, "We're seeing six-figure sums for artists we haven't heard of five years ago. There is some sort of lack of historical perspective."

A: I do believe that. I think what we are dealing with right now in the contemporary art market is older collectors who collect in a certain way and new collectors who have made their money in a different way from, say, Warren Buffett. They are looking at collecting in the same way they look at the way they've made their money. I probably shouldn't have said what I said, but I think their historical perspective is a few years old, and it parallels how they have made their money, whether in hedge funds or other kinds of investments. It's a different world from that of older collectors. It's all changed.

Of course it isn't fair for me to judge what makes someone spend $600,000 on something that has been estimated at $80,000 to $120,000 and was made in 2002. But it's part of this market, it has a huge swing. When you open a catalog and you see a sale that goes from 1945 to 2005, you'll see almost two or three different markets going on at one auction. You'll see a younger artist like Julie Mehretu come up just after Arshile Gorky. At these sales, I see some people cheering and others shaking their heads in disbelief.

Q: How does it feel to be back?

A: I'm excited to be back. I was here for 18 years. I'm shocked at how many people are here that I knew before. Owning your own business can get slightly lonely. I missed the collegial atmosphere.

Q: What will happen with your gallery?

A: We have an exhibition curated by my colleague Liz Cohen that will remain on view for a few more weeks. We have to finish up a lot of things, and we will probably not close the doors until late fall, but we'll play it by ear.